Curse

FoX_crono738 · Sep 02, 2006, 09:16 PM // 21:16

frankly, i dont care about it that much, but i do think it is a stupid attempt at making extra money and it pretty much caused everyone who was unlocking the skills manually in pvp to waste their time.

but, i guess Anet likes making EVERYTHING too easy, hell I could see Nightfall quests giving you 5-6k exp rewards for simple, pre-searing class tasks.

Addone_Abaddon · Sep 02, 2006, 09:20 PM // 21:20

I wan't the skill unlocking you get if you buy special edition guild wars, the one where it's like, 10 free skill unlocks, 10 free elite unlocks, 20 weapon mod unlocks and so on, not exactly those numbers, but you know what I mean.

Cjlr · Sep 03, 2006, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Three things some people don't seem to realize:

Item #1:
Time is money. New players now have two options: they can either A), spend time or B), spend money. This is a problem how?

Item #2:
ANet is a business. Businesses exist to make money. Selling stuff makes money. ANet is selling stuff. This is a problem how?

Item #3:
People are idiots.
(I guess that's a little unfair. Say, rather, that 50% of the population is of below average intelligence.)

gr3g · Sep 03, 2006, 03:17 AM // 03:17

I think they should bring back Zaishen Medallions and Flames of Balthazar. Unlocking with pure PvP is still too grindful and the Flames do really help. This doesn't really have anything to do with skill unlocks for money (which I have no problem with), but I'm thinking that PvP unlocks in general should be made into more of a feasible goal. Even with Flames, a full UAS would take at least a month or so for an absolute newbie, which I think is a reasonable timeframe.

samifly · Sep 03, 2006, 03:19 AM // 03:19

I do think they should reduce the amount of faction for skills, and/or bring back the flames, because unlocking thru PvP only is slow and long, and a bit silly.

Zinger314 · Sep 03, 2006, 05:25 AM // 05:25

As many of you saw, I (Syria Blackblood) was gathering the GW community's opinion about ArenaNet's decision to sell PuPs. I asked around Heroes' Ascent at 10PM-12AM EST, as that is primetime for Saturday and many people were there due to the event.

People were vocal about the change. While some of them may be...less colloquial than others, most of them say the same thing: ArenaNet screwed up.

(Black is openly disagreeing, Yellow is agreeing/neutral)

Out of the 135 people posted, 101 people thought the decision was poor. That's a whopping 75% of the playerbase, ArenaNet. It's better to have players than profits...

Doomlord_Slayermann · Sep 03, 2006, 05:37 AM // 05:37

Frankly taking a poll from the PUGers in HA might not be the most accurate representation of the GW player base, but it is interesting to know that the vast majority of players are openly negative about it.

My question now is, why? Why is this (my favorite word for today) "bullspit"? I have yet to see a legitimate reason why ArenaNet has made a bad move here. If anyone has one, I would love to hear it.

Mark Nevermiss · Sep 03, 2006, 06:41 AM // 06:41

So whats next selling unique items and uber armor in GW Store? I think this is a horrible idea.

gr3g · Sep 03, 2006, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Nevermiss

So whats next selling unique items and uber armor in GW Store? I think this is a horrible idea.

I think ArenaNet should start selling thread summaries in the store. It's clear no one is willing to grind through the thread to read what's been said before.

Slimcea · Sep 03, 2006, 07:18 AM // 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by gr3g

I think ArenaNet should start selling thread summaries in the store. It's clear no one is willing to grind through the thread to read what's been said before.

Anything in this thread is just PR, and can quite clearly change anytime at their discretion (and given the chapter-merging and storage fiascos, a high possibility exists).

Leaving aside the issue of balance (which doesn't exist IMO), two questions remains unsatisfactorily answered in this thread by people defending the new unlock packs.

Firstly, why charge for them in the first place? Why not offer it as a free perk for owners of older chapters? There's no reason to charge for it, and even if there were, is such a heavy price (the cost of an entire chapter) mandated? Sure, it's a "community-requested" feature, but so are reconnects, more customisation options etc. Are these features going to be pay-only as well?

Secondly, if you've read Gaile's reply about not offering stuff that affects in-game, there's plenty of space for room wiggling. Essentially, selling skill packs is a time-for-money trade, since unlocking generallly requires patience/time and little else. Gaile claims sales "do not unbalance the game or cause concerns amongst players who do not choose to exercise the option". I think we can ignore the latter since concerns are already being caused. As for the former, what's to keep them from progressing down this slippery slope? After all, FoW armor, custom weapon skins, new faces, do not alter gameplay per-se.

At the risk of being called flamebait, I'm going to call it for what I see it as - ANet is moving towards a free-for-basic-play but pay-for-any-extras model. And I can't say I'm too pleased with that, considering that other MMOs adopting the same model do not require chapter sales to start off with.

gr3g · Sep 03, 2006, 07:27 AM // 07:27

The day ArenaNet sells fissure armor, new faces, custom skins and so on for a fee is the day we can take up the torches and pitchfork and threaten to nuke Seattle from orbit. That day isn't today.

Skill packs for yesteryear's campaign are kind of a yawner for me. Seriously, I can't be bothered to care because it's such an optional expenditure.

bele · Sep 03, 2006, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by gr3g

The day ArenaNet sells fissure armor, new faces, custom skins and so on for a fee is the day we can take up the torches and pitchfork and threaten to nuke Seattle from orbit. That day isn't today.

Skill packs for yesteryear's campaign are kind of a yawner for me. Seriously, I can't be bothered to care because it's such an optional expenditure.

Well they opened the gate , offering a ingame feature for money.
They can add that what you coment + more storage, reconnects, New maps, actually whatever. They have found a "excuse" for this one, but maybe the next ones will come without any.

Sry for the rant, just i love this game and they are giving a good excuse to leave

Narcissus · Sep 03, 2006, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Personally I don't see what the big deal is as long as this only affects the PVP element of the game and leaves PVE alone. Even then it's only skill unlocks - a huge chunk of which are garbage in competetive PVP...the only place you can even use em. You'll still be missing out on Weapon Mods and Runes.

In the end when it comes down to it, if you sucked at PvP before you will STILL suck at PvP after the UAS purchase...you'll just have a prettier skill bar.

Pyro maniac · Sep 03, 2006, 02:08 PM // 14:08

It doesn't bother me
You can play PvP with unlocking one build ...

A-net will not sell PvE stuff, that WILL bother me ...

Scavenger Rage · Sep 03, 2006, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slimcea

Anything in this thread is just PR, and can quite clearly change anytime at their discretion (and given the chapter-merging and storage fiascos, a high possibility exists).

Leaving aside the issue of balance (which doesn't exist IMO), two questions remains unsatisfactorily answered in this thread by people defending the new unlock packs.

Firstly, why charge for them in the first place? Why not offer it as a free perk for owners of older chapters? There's no reason to charge for it, and even if there were, is such a heavy price (the cost of an entire chapter) mandated? Sure, it's a "community-requested" feature, but so are reconnects, more customisation options etc. Are these features going to be pay-only as well?

Secondly, if you've read Gaile's reply about not offering stuff that affects in-game, there's plenty of space for room wiggling. Essentially, selling skill packs is a time-for-money trade, since unlocking generallly requires patience/time and little else. Gaile claims sales "do not unbalance the game or cause concerns amongst players who do not choose to exercise the option". I think we can ignore the latter since concerns are already being caused. As for the former, what's to keep them from progressing down this slippery slope? After all, FoW armor, custom weapon skins, new faces, do not alter gameplay per-se.

At the risk of being called flamebait, I'm going to call it for what I see it as - ANet is moving towards a free-for-basic-play but pay-for-any-extras model. And I can't say I'm too pleased with that, considering that other MMOs adopting the same model do not require chapter sales to start off with.

1. Prices are not made up in 20minutes, there are a whole crew analyzing the player database to get to that number. IF you can’t understand why the price is there try to analyze their current market. People that spend 50US$ or even 80US$ (CE) will not bother paying 30US$ for the PVP only content, you are not buying "time over money", I mean, you CAN do that, but the unlocks are not made for people like yourself, they are built for people that DO NOT own the first chapter and don’t care for PVE, but still want to mess with PVP. Hell, they even made the option to sell different class packs so you don’t have to pay for what you don’t want. Do not like this business model?! Then just buy the Prophecies campaign and unlock them on you own. Just to close the idea, if you don’t like the price you will have to argue with me using some facts based on the online player database just like Anet did before setting up those prices, and btw, going to HOH and asking "is the unlocks to expensive?! 1 for yes 2 for no" doesn’t count, you got to be more specific and get into players acquisition power.

2. This has been stated 1000 times before in this same thread, they DO KNOW what we like about and what we dislike, SO even if it do not unbalance the game but the community don’t want it there they WILL NOT MAKE IT! Also, I think you should knowledge that the game community is well over 2 000 000 people, and saying that 100 guys said no or yes to the unpacks is COMPLETELY irrelevant (that other thread where the guy made his "research"). Once you get to 1 000 000 quotes (near 50% of the population) you might start thinking you got to somewhere. ALSO one last thing, EVEN if it was just 15% of the population (which is over 30 000 people btw) that wanted this upgrade, IT DOES NOT BOTHER THE OTHER PLAYERS so Anet WILL implement this anyway.

Still, I will repeat myself, EVERY SINGLE "argument" I have heard so far from people that “dislike” the unpacks are nothing but rants, IF you REALLY dislike them try to take a DEEP breath and look out WHY! Saying "it’s to expensive" or assuming that you know what the community want or don’t want based solo on your 200 people alliance doesn’t mean nothing!

Latter.

Jumnious · Sep 03, 2006, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Everyone against it are idiots ( quite frankly )... Guild Wars is experiencing lag because of? Possibly the amount of players is increasing in the GW population and loading down the servers. GW keeping their 'no monthly fee' statement, has opened their store for a place to make money to keep the servers going so people don't have to pay a monthly fee. So people with 'Factions' only accounts get gain Prophecies skills, why not? I wouldn't care less if they sold money and greens and such; would it implode the economy? Probably not. I would rather spend 25k on getting myself the Scareater instead of buying it for $9.99. "But everyone will be getting FoW armor!" So? I have seen so many people with FoW and personally for elementists, it's ugly as sin. I'm thankful that Anet is finding another source for keeping their servers up and working without charging a monthly fee.

Thank you Anet!

People complaining about it are upset because some new guy has the same skills that they worked for. "Omg!" Only 1/10 of those skills will even be useful in PvP, and which I could buy from the Priests for some simple factions. For the amount of time that someone spent in PvE to get a skill, I could spend a couple of times in Random Arena and get the same skill. Be Cool!

Valeria · Sep 03, 2006, 02:43 PM // 14:43

If you play PvE mostly this doesen't matter at all. I have unlocked all skills for 2 accouts and it wasn't that hard.
I think this is just for PvP only players. I remember the times when there was no Balthasar points and you had to find every single upgrade or rune yourself!! (that sucked)

BTW whats the point of locking skills for pvp anyway?

selling gold or greens would be the most stupid thing to do! I mean it's al about prestige. If everyone can buy a fow armor for 10$ what would be the sense in earning money trading and so on? 50% of the people are farming money because the need it for their equipment. If you could buy everything for money I wouldn't play the game after beating the missions at all.

Loviatar · Sep 03, 2006, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scavenger Rage

People that spend 50US$ or even 80US$ (CE) will not bother paying 30US$ for the PVP only content, you are not buying "time over money", I mean, you CAN do that, but the unlocks are not made for people like yourself, they are built for people that DO NOT own the first chapter and don’t care for PVE, but still want to mess with PVP. Hell, they even made the option to sell different class packs so you don’t have to pay for what you don’t want..

wrong at this time according to Gaile

please note that Gaile posted that you do indeed have to own chapter 1 to unlock the skills using the skill packs.

to repeat you HAVE to have the chapter already to use the additional cost skill packs.

gabrial heart · Sep 03, 2006, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Do you guys know "jump the shark"? http://www.jumptheshark.com/

Anyway, for a new pvp player i think it's not a bad idea, but for the overall, standing community at large i think it's pretty pathetic. i'm mostly a pve'r and have ALL my elites unlocked and any skills that aren't i can take a couple hours and unlock them.

Personally, i believe this game is highly a pve community and even AB's are pve driven. As a-net once wanted todo, i also think this goes against the original plan to bring the 2 communities together. Most pver's would be more up-in-arms over this decision then newer pvp folks. it doesn't *bother* me, but it does irk me that they decided to do this becuase it again degrades gameplay.

People buy run's in tyria, level 2's in THK or RoF, that clearly don't know how to play thier build, this will even shine more in the pvp world. A newb with all his skills unlocked is still a newb, yet now with the mentality that since they have all these skills, they are the 1337est.

Being how controversial this thread is "12 pages worth", this may just deal the final blow to the pvp world of guild wars. when Nightfall comes and pvp is even less of the focus of the designers, pvp may be sooo elite that ranking guilds will be even more sporatic.

Murchad · Sep 03, 2006, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Sorry, but I've read that just once too many times, and I'm tapped out. I hereby challenge you to find any time that I have said "Never" to the option of UAS. I'm sure I've said not likely, or perhaps, even, that I did not foresee it coming, but have I ever said "We will never offer UAS?" You're attributing that to me--to ArenaNet as a whole--and I really need to challenge you.

I'm sorry, it was implied by the PvP community as a whole since you looked at "UAX" as a dirty word and refused to post in any thread that even mentioned it. And there's no way I can scour through thousands of your posts in order to find if you said specifically or not "never". Some forums don't even have half of your old posts anyway.